Irene Aterido: “The BDSM is bizarre, because it comes from the darkest side of the human being”.”Please, torture me, but do not hurt me”.

November 2010

Irene is a member of the College of Political Science and Sociology from Madrid. She has a background in gender studies and feminist theory in the UCM and the University of Hamburg. Participated since its inception in the RQTR association, dealing with documentation and bibliographical advice to the university community about LGBT issues. This young (but highly educated) sociologist opens to us, literally, the doors of her house and her knowledge about the darkest side of human beings.

1. To our readers who are a bit more innocent, what is BDSM and alternative sexualities?

Thus, shortly, it would be sex that involves unconventional sexual practices. In particular, bondage, domination, submission, sadomasochism and plenty of concrete practices that are related to these concepts.

2. Why did you specialize in BDSM?

Through acquaintances and basically through the work in a university association, RQTR.

3. Currently, this type of sexual practices aren’t approved yet. Could you give us a sociological view of why, as it happens with LGBT people, these practices have to be in the closet?

We’ve gone from a patriarcal and heteronormative model of sexuality in which only the male had the right to pleasure to a more egalitarian model with the principle to give pleasure and empower to any individual. It’s still difficult to fit these explicit practices of power. As for the closet, before equality between couples that we enjoy nowadays, it was necesary because this sexuality crashed with education, religion …

4. Are there alternative sexualities within others, for example of lesbians? Are there BDSM parties for women only?

Yes, yes there are. The truth is that they coexist with what we might call the BDSM community. Most are heterosexual and gay. The minority are lesbians who practice it. In Spain there are no bars or places, but there are events and parties, public and private.

5. What are the BDSM and fetish practices among lesbians?

We can’t say that there are one type of practices exclusive among lesbians, but the dynamics that exist in these events are somewhat different from those that may take place in a gay leather commercial party or in more heterosexual places, also commercial, which are now in Spain. For example, just like in a gay party people take for granted that there will be very explicit and genital sex, women often do something more fluid between conventional and unconventional practices. There is also more fluidity about the roles they adopt. But there is no field work because of the complexity of the collective.

6. Is the orgasm necesary for pleasure in BDSM? Is sex necesary?

No. A physical orgasm is not necesary to obtain pleasure. Nor is it necessary to have conventional sex with your game partner, but there are many digressions about it. All participants practice BDSM for pleasure, even if the practice is extreme. But is not only for this. There is also self-knowledge or exceeding your own limits. I know the case of the submissive orgasm. One can have an orgasm without having manipulated the genitals. For example, in a spank session one can achieve with great level of excitement, both men and women, an equivalent of an orgasm.

7. How do you learn to practice BDSM?

We should distinguish between before and after the Internet. Before the Internet learning was extremely slow. Since the person was aware of these somewhat embarrassing sexual desires he started digging until he met someone who became his playing partner. This was before 95. Later the IRC (Internet Relay Chat) channels emerged and that became the primary way of socializing in BDSM. It will become easier with the chat channels, because of the unlimited access to porn people don’t have to order certain types of magazines by mail or go to kiosks and buy them. It’s important to highlight the “Sumisa” (submissive) magazine, which recently disappeared and was one of the few of the genre. After chatting people dare to have an off line date with good or bad luck. One way of learning in this very important moment, almost anthropological, are the blogs.

8. It is called “unconventional sex,” so I imagine there are no studies on how many people recognize to practice it and how many people practice it but doesn’t recognize it, right?

No, as I said it’s very difficult to do studies on this subject because of it’s complexity and because most practitioners have a double life.

9. Do we keep our personalities in the BDSM or do we change our daily role?

That is the great cliché. We can not say that there are some individuals more prone to these practices, which by the way, formerly, and many of them now, were considered paraphilias by the American Psychiatric Association. For several years there were multiple psychological theories about sadomasochistic motivations, and psychiatric literature on the matter. This comes from Freud and the earlier era, when all unconventional sexuality was pathologized, which by then, 120 years ago, was everything that wasn’t reproductive intercourse. This has been changing, but still today, sadomasochism is considered one of the paraphilias collected by this association. The only case in which there is a true theory is in professional domination. But this is 5% of cases. The remaining 95% are people who make it in an amateur way and roles can be maintained as in your daily life or change in each game. Each person in his/her daily life exerts many roles, we have multiple personalities and build them in the BDSM game.

10. Is there a default psychological and physical profile or social status?

No. What is certain is that well-off people are lucky to have, in many cases, dungeons or designated areas to carry out their games. Money gives you more mobility. But there is all sort of people from the trucker, the guard from the disco or the super consultant, and in fact, they mix in this different social classes game that maybe, if it wasn’t for the BDSM, their worlds would never touch. We speak of grown-ups with established personality structures. There may be people with mental disorders, but at the same percentage as in real life. BDSM is for people who are sane, the rest is not BDSM.

11. Are there stages in BDSM?

There are people who started with 20 years and is now 70 and remains always with the same role. What may vary is the type of practices, but not the intensity. It is also a big cliché. The fact that the more you get into the BDSM and begin to practice it, you will always want more. And it’s not like that, it’s not like starting a computer game and going through stages. There are many stages, but is well studied. These phases may be the excitement, disappointment, failure to find a suitable mate …

12. How much is it legal and illegal in BDSM? How are the rules set ?

Illegal? Not in Spain. In other countries there are practices that are prosecuted and even punished. In the BDSM practiced in Spain by adults there is nothing prosecutable or punishable, as long as it is practiced in private. There are games that can simulate rape, but it’s something that’s always agreed and consented and usually only the practitioners know it’s not real. If an outsider sees it, it can be deceiving. There must be an ethical limit on including third parties in your game without their consent. The rules are set by talking a lot, sometimes with written contracts of sexual slavery.They have no legal validity, but I think they are recommendable. In the U.S. is usually done this way. A list of practices, disabilities, phobias, traumas is made, so that both parties know what to expect and how far it can go. The family and work limits are usually not touched. It is advisable to have a safe word or gesture to stop the game or decrease the level of intensity, but people don’t always use it.

13. In addition to liberal bars and nightclubs, where can somoeone go to have this kind of sex? How and where will they know?

Two parties for women only took place in Madrid, one public and the other private. The public party was at a place called “El almacén”, which has recently closed and is an event which takes place every 6 months. Apart from this party, currently the only place opened regularly is called Luna Negra. It’s basically heterosexual. They won’t deny you the entry because you are gay or lesbian, but the atmosphere is totally different. It’s like going to any bar or going to “Fulanita”(lesbian bar). You can also go to liberal or swingers nightclubs, there people who often seek to have a BDSM night in those places. The BDSM nightclubs have a very short life because they don’t make enough money. Practitioners don’t drink, so there is no cash up and the places end up closing. There’s another place called “Con Sentido” (a pun that means “consented” in spanish), but it’s not a game nightclub. Exhibitions, lectures and film screenings related to BDSM are organizad here.

14. Finally, tell us the theoretical development that the BDSM has had, from Foucault to queer theory.

It comes from several sources. On one hand, sociological theory development is very, very low. In Spanish, there’s almost nothing self-produced. It’s starting now with the queer theory and postporn and the deconstruction of gender theme. We should differentiate between what would be the bibliographic production, which studies the BDSM, as Olga Viñuales’ work in Catalonia, and then these theoretical developments that use aspects of BDSM but which, in my opinion, are part of an eagerness to challenge. You can use sex for many different things, you might like to read it, study or in an artistic level, as a provocation. Sex is everywhere and can be used for many things. All developments that exist aren’t much related with the BDSM that is practiced. I think we’ll have to wait ten or fifteen years to see if this theory that develops from the queer has much validity or not, and if it will still be held by the theorists who write about it. Practitioners don’t care if these power dynamics become visible. What they do is to reappropriate and eroticized them for their own pleasure. Queer theory does make visible these real and social power dynamics, which are, unfortunately, currently in force. This is my vision, because I am not very postmodern (laughs).

A two hour interview with someone like Irene would probably go far more than what was expressed in this interview. After listening and looking into her eyes and then hearing the recording, I really believe that BDSM is a separate subculture. I am convinced that many who today grab their heads thinking about the “atrocities” of these practices, have used handcuffs with their partner or assumed roles to play as nurses, cops, kittensschoolgirls … or have tied their hands or legs at least once. And that, my dear, is BDSM.

More information:

http://www.staleywise.com/collection/von_unwerth_revenge/von_unwerth_revenge.html#
http://esclavalilanegra.blogspot.com/?zx=5cdb5ae6a11e9a8a
http://www.dominaamanda.blogspot.com/?zx=32e051768ea1adda
http://la-mosca-cojonera.blogspot.com/
http://www.bettiepage.com/gallery/whip.html
http://pornoterrorismo.blogspot.com/

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